January 25, 2007
Deleted Users Posts
this has happened many times in the past. i had an employee who sent his wife and new weeks old baby to flordia from dfw. they were stuck on the tarmac approx. 7 hours. can you guess what this was like.
WE WERE SCHEDULED TO FLY TO LONDON BUT THE FLIGHT WAS CANCELLED. I LOST MY NONREFUNDABLE RESERVATION IN LONDON AND THEY REFUSE TO REIMBURSE US. AA IS EXTREMELY ARROGANT AND THE AUSTIN INCIDENT SHOULD BE FOLLOWED BY A LAW SUIT FOR FALSE IMPRISONMENT. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY THEY WILL PAY ATTENTION.
We were stuck in freezing weather in chicago…i was on the united shuttle flight to greenville spartanburg. i was sitting in the front seat of this tiny plane, we were stuck at the gate…she insisted on leaving the door open, the fumes were building up in the plane and i asked to sit in the back to get away from the fumes. felt faint…and the stewardess pulled a big power trip saying the plane was too weighted on the side of the empty seat. we were not allowed to leave and were forced to stay in our seats for 3 hours. appauling and frustrating to be stuck like that – forced to breath the nasty air.
Air Travel has become like traveling on a Greyhound Bus. Flying United last year from New York to San Francisco we landed in Denver. Granted the weather was terrible and it was a full-blown snowstorm. The plane should have never left the gate in the first place, because we sat on the tarmac for 5-6 hours. Barely any information was given and they acted like they could care less. Plus the Audio for the pop down screens wasn’t working so they played the movie over the PA system…very annoying.
Sitting on the runway is definitely terrible, HOWEVER what about the practice of “bumping” people off of flights and overselling? This happened to me 3 times in the last year. This should be an illegal practice and if they have sold you a ticket they should honor you with a seat no matter what. How this has become an acceptable practice makes absolutely no sense and leads to irrate and distraught passengers.
I was on AA flight 1348 and would like to become involved in any action that could change policy. I know of two, maybe a third person also involved that would also participate. Who do I contact?
For those of you who are joining the group please contact Kate Hanni @ KatCrew4@aol.com. Don’t wait please contact her with all of your contact info. We need your help.
Liz contact KatCrew4@aol.com for help on this matter.
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Being stranded sucks! 9 hours is pretty bad, but you have to relize that the flight crew was getting the word that “the weather is going to lift in 30 min to 1 hour, so stay ready”. Weather delays are unpredictable and, yes the terminal is better than staying on the aircraft, but the tarmac in queue to go is better than crashing!
The personnel issue is another story. AA staff should have sited safety, health and hygiene, and technical problems. They should have called it an emergency if it was.
Passengers should have a bill of rights, and they should also realize that responsible travel planning, a tolerance for the situations that may come up, and an understanding of the airline travel process, all should be taken into consideration before letting pissed over zealous politicians take over and further regulate this over regulated and over unionized industry!
Lasst April I was stranded on the tarmac for three hours on an AA from La Guardia. There was no apology, no food, no refunds, no nothing. And when passengers got up in the aisle to stretch her legs, they were barked at the by stewardess to sit down because of “anti-terrorism” rules. Similar excessive delays on SW and others. I support your Bill of Rights.
According to a news report, Eddie Bernice Johnson will NOT support a Bill of Rights!!! Perhaps she is not intouch with reality and exactly how much grass roots support this legislation has. I was shocked at her arrogant attitude. Might be time for a change in the 30th District? Ms. Hanni – Keep fighting for all of us!!!!!!!!!
This is long overdue. If we had an even remotely competent congress/senate this would have been done long ago….but we all know who they represent.
I applaud your efforts and hope that this is a successful endeavor. I’m happy to do anything I can to help, to include writing letters to my congressman. I think it would be beneficial if you posted a form letter that each visitor can send to his/her congressman. That would increase the volume immensely.
Air travel can be tough, especially during the holiday season with storms in TX and blizzards in CO. The proposed “Passenger Bill-of-Rights” would drive the carriers out of business. Remember you the are responsible for your own actions, so take another flight. If the airlines are forced to comply, tickets would be minimum of $2000 (my guess a leg and nobody could fly.
While I personally am tired of government interference in every aspect of American life, I do think setting up guidelines for this type of situation is a positive step. No one wants to pay for a ticket and be kept a prisoner on the tarmac. An alternative suggestion might be to do some grass roots lobbying with the industry itself. I’m quite certain there are a lot of other factors to consider in airport logistics, not the least of which is gate availability.
On our honeymoon, our departing American flight was due to leave at 6 am. Due to the weather, the flight was one flight attendant short and couldn’t leave. We boarded the plane at 7:45 and then were told there was an equipment malfunction. The plane didn’t get off the ground ’til 11am. When the flight attendant came through offering drinks, she offered us a can of pringles or a cookie for $3 and didn’t have enough for everyone. We missed our flight to our destination and lost a day of our very expensive vacation.
I think at the very least, flights should have to maintain enough food for the number passengers aboard. Should just go ahead and add the cost of some sort of snack to the already expensive airline ticket and not try to nickel and dime us.
I was on an AA flight from San Diego to Dallas… In San Diego they loaded the aircraft, pushed back from the terminal, and shut down the engines, and we sat for 4 hours… due to fog in SD… but at least they got their on time departure…
No matter how you slice it, holding people captive on an airplane for 3 hours or more [let alone 14 hours] is wrong. There should have been some common sense used either in the cockpit or in the Austin Airport staff.
The airlines have been bailed out by the American taxpayer a number of times and are getting worse in their ability to serve their customers. We should have every right to regulate them more through a passenger’s bill of rights.
I hope there is a lawsuit. That seems to be the only way they will respond.
I’ve had this happen to me and it has to stop.
Take it from a long-time Dallasite, American Airlines should be avoided like the plague. They run their company like it’s a Kool-Aid stand and were behind flight restrictions at our close-in airport here in Dallas. They own the local politicians and have intimidated the local press here so badly that journalists are too nervous to hold their pens. Bottom line: make other arrangements.
Is there a petitio we could sign to send to lawmakers?
I agree that the only way the airlines will stop this type of practice is the threat of gov’t penalty. Publicity does not seem to have an effect. If a congressman or senator was on a flight of this nature, you can bet a different course of action would have been taken.
I’m surprised the airlines have gotten away with this BS for so long. No other business who treated their customers this way would still be in business. Something like this occured this past summer. We arrived at the airport for our flight to Denver at 8am. The fight was to leave at 10am. The plane we were to take was coming from Chicago, but was held up for 6 hours in Chicago due to thunderstorms. When the plane finally arrived, we found out the people on that plane had sat in that plane for more than 6 hours, in the summer heat, with no airconditioning. What kind of crap is that?
Had a similar experience with AA a couple years back. Was traveling from Florida to NY in February. Left Florida 7:30am and landed in Chicago on time. Ended up being delayed in Chicago several hours. At 9pm we were finally loaded on a plane – when we finally reached our destination, the plane kept circling and trying to land only to come back up and circle again. During this time the pilot came on line to let us know that there were heavy winds (I don’t remember the exact numbers – so these are guesses)- that were around 52 mph and he was only rated at only 50 or less – so he was going to circle a while and try to wait for a dip in the wind. In the meantime we could overhear the stewardesses worrying about fuel “this is only supposed to be a 2 hour flight and we’ve been in the air 3 hours already”.
Finally the pilot gives up and we are sent to Toronto, Canada where we sit on the tarmac for another hour while they try to figure out what to do with us. They finally decide to put us up for the night in a hotel. By the time we get to the hotel and checked in it is around 4am – they tell us we need to be back at the airport no later than 7am for the 8am flight.
The next morning we get to the airport at 7am as directed. After getting a hard time from customs because we didn’t have passports (what were we thinking??!!) – about a quarter to 8 someone from the airlines comes around asking us if anyone has seen the pilots! Apparently there is a rule about how many hours of sleep the pilots are required and they slept in. (think the rest of us could have used the extra rest?).
Now I need to add that my wife and I were travelling with our daughter – about a year and half old. Now we had not planned for a multi-day/country excursion and by the second day ran out of diapers. Since we were in a foreign country with no passport – we couldn’t leave the airport. There were no stores around that sold diapers and AA informed me that it wasn’t their problem. Well after I sat my daughter bare bottomed on the guy’s counter – he agreed that it would soon be his “problem” and amazingly found some diapers.
Still the story does not end! The pilots finally arrive and the flight is rescheduled for 12:30. By 1:30 we finally land at our destination – and are left on the tarmac. We are stranded there for another 2 hours!
When we finally get home – my parents who drove from Florida had beaten us home – and we’ve sworn never to fly AA again. It wasn’t the weather related problems that ticked us off, it was the way we were treated as a “problem” to the airlines – almost as if it was our fault.
Lets face it folks the brightest and best are not working in the airline industry excluding the pilots of course. We have migrated postal worker caliber personnel to the security check lines and the stewardess are some of the most unfriendly waitress in the sky you can find. I support your efforts to bring a passenger bill of rights and will gladly sign your petition. Great Job.
There’s simply no consumer protection or pressure for consumer advocacy on the airlines, and that’s because there is no accountability in the industry. There will be tough opposition to any consumer protection movement from Congressfolk seated in the states that employ a lot of airline workers. GOOD LUCK!
(Frankly I’m surprised there haven’t been more passenger uprisings on planes stuck on the tarmac for hours on end. I don’t think I’d be able to control myself after 4 hours, and I think it’d be justifiable.)
I fully support your efforts. I am surprised that this even has to be done. I have been fortunate in my travels to not have to sit on the tarmac for more than 2 hours. But, those 2 hours were absolute TORTURE for me as I too panic and am a bit afraid of tight quarters and stale air. Arrrgh. Just thinking about it…
Passengers should always be transfered back to a terminal or secure location. Most major airports have bus shuttles that could get the passengers off and take them to a secure location at the airport to wait out delay. Passengers should be given the option of being allowed OFF the plane to rebook. I would rather spend two nights on the floor of the airport terminal than more than 3 hours on the tarmac. That’s just me.
Please add me to your contact list: email@example.com
NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT, SITTING ON TARMAC FOR 9 HRS IS CRIMINAL. I WOULD LIKE AA AIRLINE EXECUTIVES AND AA PERSONNELL AT AUSTIN TO GO THRU THE SAME EXPERIENCE WITH THEIR FAMILIES.
I AM ALSO CONCERNED THAT NEW GOVT REGULATION IS NOT AN ANSWER. I KNOW I WORK FOR GOVT.
This overemotional reaction to a very bad day needs to end short of federally imposed penalties. Who do you think will pay the fees? Every single traveller, including those who end up being delayed. In other words, your ticket price goes up (regardless of which airline) because the airline is simply spreading the cost of the inevitable fines. Where else do you think the money will come from?
Next thing you know some angry sports fan will want the feds to impose penalties on teams that play poorly, an angry shopper will demand penalties for stores with long lines, an angry church-goer will want penalties imposed on preachers whose sermons go long…
Deal with it. Your day sucked. Stop blaming the world and move on.
if the airline industry is going to operate in this manner then there needs to be some laws to prevent this kind of behavior. i think if i was stranded on a tarmac for 3 hrs id be pulling the emergency exit door or call in a terrorist threat to the local police department saying you are being held hostige on an airplane by a terrorist,,, (the pilot)
Good luck on this. My wife and I had the same experience with same airline under much the same circumstance. We were diverted from Dallas to San Antonio and sat for hours on the runway just as you did. It’s a horrible experience. There’s no excuse, other than the convenience of the airline, for not allowing passsengers to deplane into the terminal.
While you’re at it, why don’t you also penalize drivers who cause traffic jams? Or, why not ask for a “Everything That Happens in Mortality” bill of rights, so that you’re exempt from all problems that may come your way? That way, someone else can compensate you every time something goes wrong in your life. It’s the perfect solution! Who wouldn’t vote for such a measure?
Long overdue. Unfortunately we all have similar experiences therefore we MUST take action to protect ourselves. I fully support your efforts and will do my part by forwarding this blog to my contact list. Let’s get an email petition started ASAP. Please add me to your contact list: Debi Lichorowic, Middleburg, VA firstname.lastname@example.org
I personally think the airlines should be put on a “stike” system, Under a Passenger bill of Rights. Three stikes and your business lisencse is revoked. Additionally this is what I demand under a passenger bill of rights.1. If I am delayed over night I get a hotel free of charge, irregardless of the reason. Airlines ALWAYS lie and blame it on wheather to get out of paying.2. If my flight is delayed more than two hours for ANY reason I get a FULL refund plus a FREE ticket to use in the future. 3. A reasonable cap on air tickets. Southwest has the right idea, a cap of $299 on a plane ticket is fair.4. FREE EDIBLE food on all flights over two hours. I was on a NYC-LA flight and I had to PAY for a lousy sandwich.5. Make it a criminal offense where airline employees can be arrested and thrown in jail for holding people captive on an airplane for more than two hours.
Included in the passenger bill of rights should be a provision about a minimum amount of space for seats. I have been on flights where, while sitting on the aisle, the flight attendant s leaning over to serve the persons on the other side of the aisle resulted in their posterior coming within an inch or two of my face. I’ve also had situations where I could literally not move my legs for several hours wthout getting out of my seat.
Please include me in any organizational efforts to get this passed as a law. I have traveled for 15 years now and I am appalled by the conduct of all airlines. anything over 2 hours on a runway the plane should be brought back to the terminal….i did not see a sing up area on this site … please email me email@example.com on how I can help
Please include me in any organizational efforts to get this passed as a law. I have traveled for 15 years now and I am appalled by the conduct of all airlines. anything over 2 hours on a runway the plane should be brought back to the terminal….i did not see a sing up area on this site … please email me firstname.lastname@example.org on how I can help
Sunday, January 21, 2007, I was scheduled to fly out of Baltimore, MD at 5:30pm to DFW on AA 1451. A minor snow emergency occurred which meant the plane had to be de-iced. The de-icing truck broke down behind the plane. We sat on the tarmac for 4 hours until they could move the broke down truck and bring in another. The only refreshments offered were little cups of water, but you had to ask. The pilot tried to get food on board from the terminal, but the restaurants shut down. I asked for asprin (I had a headache, body ache from sitting and was catching a cold), but the flight attendent told me there was none available. They did give us headsets to watch TV and a movie. They also allowed passengers who wanted to off load and catch a different flight to deplane. During the flight, the only refreshments and snacks were for purchase only (even a bottle of water) and, when we landed, the pilot admitted in 20 years of flying, this was the most unexcusable event he had ever been a part of. I am an extremely patient air traveller; things happen, but this was unacceptable.
YOU’RE MISSING AN OPPPORTUNITY HERE. This site says, “Add your contact information to the list!” but I can’t find a list. If there is a petition or something along those lines, where do we sign? Please make it easy to find.
And thanks for what you’re doing. Every frequent flyer has a few nightmare stories like this.
While I don’t necessarily think that it should require a bill/regulation made into law, it should at least be something “reasonable” that all the airlines can agree to. Treating your customers (who pay your salaries) this way is unacceptable.
Good for you… How’s this: flight cancelled, put on another airline altoghether, had to get own luggage and go to another terminal (at Newark, so had to take a tram) with an infant and 2 year old… i am a young woman travelling alone!! noone from the airline (american) came to help… went thru security twice… separated from the infant and 2 year old, and practically strip-searched! then sat on the tarmac for 4 hours… the stewardess suggested i not get up to change the baby’s diaper while we were waiting, as if the airplane was given the ok to taxi and take-off, my being out of the seat would cause further delay… so after an hour of the baby sitting in her own defacation, i changed the diaper at the seat — hot, uncirculated air… this was a nightmare… the airline only gave us a few miles for our troubles!!!! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!
Since I was not there I cannot say exactly what I would have done, nor can I give advice to the group. All I can do is share what I think I would have done in this situation.
There would have been a point where I would have begun to consider the following action: I might have called a steward and informed them of my nervous condition, and that if something was not done to either get this plane off the ground or get the passengers back into the terminal I might become aggitated to the extent that they would be required to release me to law-enforcement.
Actions like what I describe above would not fix everything, but I would be willing, at some point, to go to jail to get myself out of that situation.
I have a suggestion for an additional line item in your proposed rules.
– Airlines shall give seating and boarding priority to those passengers whose flights are cancelled.
For example, if a flight of 150 passengers is cancelled, then the first 150 seats on the next flight to the same destination are reserved for those passengers from the cancelled flight, regardless of those passengers holding reservations for the next flight.
Passengers bumped from the “next” flight will have priority on the following flight, and so on, until the backlog has been cleared.
I have flown over a million miles, and have some degree of experience with this system. I disagree with the airlines’ policy of scattering passengers from a single cancelled flight over the remaining available seats on flights for the next couple of days. If a flight is cancelled, then the airline should accommodate THOSE passengers FIRST. Of course it will disrupt their system, but it will minimize the impact on any 1 person, and spread the impact of a cancelled flight across more people.
I once showed up at an airport after it had been closed for 2 days due to snow. Some people had been in the airport, sleeping on the seats, for as long as 2 days. I had a reservation, and got on the plane ahead of those people. That was great for me, but it was hardly fair to the people who had been sleeping in chairs for 2 days.
The plane should have been loaded with “earliest original reservation first.” The airlines know who is cscheduled on the later flights, and they can call people to let them know that their seat has been moved to a later flight.
My daughter was on the Costa Rica to Dallas flight on Dec 29, which was diverted to Shreveport…a non-international airport. There were held captive for 6 hr because no one could leave the plane (no customs/immigration). My complaints were not answered until AFTER the Wall St Journal article, which precipitated a second complaint by me. Bad weather can’t be helped, but bad management is something else entirely.
I was stuck on the tarmac on a shuttle flight from DC to NYC for over 7 hours about 5 years ago. The entire flight was only supposed to take less than 2. There was no food or drinks or apologies. When we were finally cleared to leave, the flight crew couldn’t take off because of federal “flying time” limits. Couldn’t they have anticipated this and let us off hours earlier??? We got out of the airplane around midnight. The entire airport was closed with no one to help. I ended up renting a car and driving to NYC with 4 total strangers. When I called to complain, not only did I not get an apology but I got a snotty ‘customer service’ rep with zero sympathy. After many letters and complaints up the chain I got a $50 voucher which was worthless because I would never fly that airline again. I was contemplating a false imprisonment suit but ultimately decided it wasn’t worth it. Congress should absolutely step in. Oversight is definitely needed but I remain skeptical that elected officials will stand up to the airlines. Good luck with your mission!
I was on a United reginal jet flying from GSP to Chicago a few years ago without a working lavatory. Forget the fact that we took off with out a working toilet, the door was jammed. When we landed we were stuck on the tarmac for almost an hour because of congestion. My bladder was about to explode and I seriously considered the option of wetting my pants before I passed out. I of course spoke to a flight attendant about it and got the usual, ‘What do you want me to do about it?’ look. Dogs in kennels are treated better.
This has happened to me on several occasions, but never 10 hours!!! I thought 3-4 hours was bad – I might have had to do something to be arrested (or fake an acute illness) if I were stuck like these poor people. It’s happened to me with Delta, Continental, and US Airways, so yes it is an industry-wide problem. Let’s stand up for our rights. I’m joining the movement.
To those above who think we should just suck it down and move on, I ask you – where has that gotten us so far? That’s what we’ve done all these years already, and the airlines just get more arrogant, more poorly organized, and these on-tarmac delays have become much more frequent.
I admit I’m not one for extending the reach of the feds. Also, I realize that the monetary penalties will just be included in the price of a ticket, so I’m not a big proponent of that either. But humane treatment and the flow of truthful information are not expensive in their execution or administration. Talk to us, and let us out of the damned plane!
American is the pits. I don’t know why people fly it. Along with United these are the worst. I fly Continental and experience great service. As for American — ever since that hedious man ran it — the creepy Randall I believe — the airline stinks!
American Airlines has a proud and significant PAST history in the US and world wide airline industry. As a frequent flyer on aa it disgusts me to read and share in these peoples stories. It would seem that some strengent measures need to be taken immedeatly to set this airline strait. As a group we could petition congress to cancel and call in their government backed bail out loans. If we would like to see aa change for the better we need to hit them in the pocket book where it will hurt most!
If the feds can impose time limits for flight crews why can’t they impose limits on the amount of time planes can spend on a tarmac? No fines necessary.
One thing to consider is that bringing a plane back to the gate will cause ripple delays for other flights for the rest of the day. Are we all prepared for longer delays and more late flights?
Dear Coalition: In order to gain true traction on this, you are going to have to get Southwest Airlines behind this. They have one of the best customer service records, truly care about their “guests” and have the most credibility among the financial community. This will be a bill that will worry the financial community about associated costs. So it should be addressed that a byproduct will be that the airlines will have to become more efficient. Further, Southwest has the political connections. They may also be able to help you identify areas of your proposal that need strengthening or are unlikely/unreasonable (after all, you want your own proposal to be credible). You should publicly reach out to them in an open letter and send it to (each one cc’d) their Government Relations VP, Marketing VP, Legal VP, CEO, and VP of Customer Relations. Also, publish the letter. By having an airline (credible / profitable) on your side, you are then not seen as an adversary. Further, the airlines have ENORMOUS political clout to keep your ideas out of committee or tabled. As you go through this process, one only needs to look at the political fight regarding the Wright Amendment (for which your nemesis in this case, American Airlines was responsible). Once Southwest joins, other airlines will be forced to come to the table. Start with the “low cost carriers” first (Southwest, Jet Blue), then use this momentum to invite the others. Then, you must gain support (political clout) from the districts where these airlines are based (Dallas for Southwest and New York City for JetBlue). As this is a political year, you have the benefit of aspiring Presidential politicians – i.e. Hillary from New York. Gain one Republican Sponsor and one Democrat. Gain additional co-authors. Look for politicians that have recently had their wives confused with Cat Stevens and such (haha). In general, the topic (poor customer service from airlines) is something that resonates with the public as a whole. This will not be seen as the Fed encroaching, but rather protecting citizens through the development of “reasonable” guidelines. Further, there must be “teeth” to your proposal. Much like the healthcare industry’s “HIPAA” rule, if you do not have fines, the airlines will not honor whatever bill you pass. The fines in this case must be clear and awarded to PASSENGERS, not the government. For example, $500 per bag within 10 business days would make them get their baggage systems in order for example. They could then not afford to lose your bags. Look for examples in other countries as well that support your initiative. Good Luck – Ashco
I can fully understand delays and cancelled flights due to severe weather BUT don’t make me sit on the tarmac for 10 hours or more — 3 hrs. might give me clostophobia. JUST GET ME BACK TO THE TERMINAL AND I WILL SIT QUIETLY AND WAIT.
This is great, and long-overdue. I am sick and tired of paying hundreds of dollars in advance for a service that NEVER provides what I’ve purchased. Being held on a plane on the tarmac is totally unacceptable, and if I were on that AA flight, I would have gotten off of that plane, one way or another.
The purchase of an airline ticket is a binding contract between a consumer and a business, and yet airlines are NEVER held accountable for their lies, their mistakes or their business practices.
I can be reached at email@example.com – I would like to help in any way possible.
In the past I’ve used the Austin, TX airport to pick up a loved one on a regular basis. There the airline was Delta, and while far from perfect, I miss their standards because now I have to use American Airlines in Waco.
Out of all of the flights there not even ONE has been on time. To make matters worse, I’ve found American Airlines staff to be arrogant; they couldn’t give a damn about their customers. Any protest to American’s stonewalling only results in threats of calling out the airport Gestapo–people none of us care to deal with. I’m sick to death of having to pick up a woman who is invariably in tears because of the abominably bad customer service.
Since American Airlines exercises a virtual monopoly at Waco, switching to another carrier isn’t an option. But, even if it were, past pattern suggests that if people were to refuse to patronize American, it wouldn’t matter. They would go to the Congress for their corporate welfare. When big business works with the Congress, companies like American Airlines will coerce our money out of us whether we like it or not, just as they did in the wake of 9/11. Big business can’t lose and the American people can’t win.
I’ve complained repeatedly to the FAA as well as American, with nary a reply from either. Hopefully, issues such as this one will be resolved in the new congress. Support the Passengers’ Bill of Rights!
I think this initiative is overdue and support your efforts. When you get an email list going, add me. firstname.lastname@example.org
September 2004 An American Airlines flight from DFW to New Orleans was delayed until the following day due to “the worst storm system they’d seen in 20 years.” I received no compensation of any kind… it is funny that 4 flights that were not full were compressed into a single PACKED flight the next day because of this horrible history making storm. In March 2004, my wife was on an American Airlines commuter flight from Houston to Dallas. This plane was held on the tarmac from 7 pm to midnight IN DALLAS because of “the worst weather in 20 years.” They were approaching riot conditions on that plane after 5 hours at their destination without being allowed off. It really amounts to government/corporate sponsored kidnapping. It must be global warming… the weather must be getting really bad out there (sun is shining, birds are singing temperature 35F) if there is this much “worst weather in 20 years.”Funny that I can find no records of these so-called record-breaking storms that happen multiple times a year for several years running.
Here is a quote from the just-released National Aviation Resource Manual for Quarantainable Deseases, page 30:
Passenger Considerations:Holding people on an airplane or on airport grounds presents some sensitive issues toconsider:• Maintaining the health of the “well” passengers and flight crew – Inadequateventilation, insufficient bathroom facilities, and the potential for deep vein thrombosisfrom sitting for long periods of time pose health risks for “well” passengers and flightcrew. It is important that the Quarantine Station or public health personnel evaluatethe ill person(s) in an expeditious manner and remove them promptly if warranted.• Keeping the passengers informed – Passengers will look to any source forinformation about the unfolding events on the airplane. Responding agencies needto assist and encourage the flight crew to keep passengers informed and calm.• Keeping the situation under control – The public health officer who enters the planeshould ask the flight attendants to keep everyone seated until the medical evaluationis made. Should “well” passengers become unruly, the public health officer shouldrequest assistance from the jurisdictional law enforcement agency.• Informing family members and those waiting for the airplane – Airlines need to keepthose waiting for the airplane informed about what is occurring on the airplane. Someairports/airlines have waiting areas for the families and friends awaiting passengersand flight crew.Page 30 of 48
Sometimes it takes an event like this to bring people together…so maybe a silver lining.
This is a deep-rooted issue. I had a recently horrible experience with American Airlines on a trip where my first flight in a connection was delayed 5 hours causing me to be unable to make my connection. I was traveling from San Juan PR to Orlando to LA. The gate in PR announced the delay and told passengers with connections to go to the customer service desk. We did, all of us…and then an AA employee R.A. Serrano walked up and told us that we had to go back to the gate…and that they would not help us at the C/S desk. I argued and he said “we’re not going to help you”. Our delay was mechanical, not weather. He said no help. I asked for the Supervisor, he said that’s me.
Calling the 800 reservations line is useless as they will only charge a penalty to fix your flight. Even speaking to a supervisor there was useless.
19 hours later, upon returing to LAX, the luggage mysteriously took 1.5 hours to show up at the baggage claim…which is when I noticed my bags didn’t make it. A/A was useless and could not provide any status for me other than my bags arrived in LA the next day. They claimed they use the same company to deliver the bags as the other airlines, and nobody was able to escalate my deliver (as they had lost over 700 other bags according to them). 48 hours later they arrived, with my medicine.
So…I subscribe that this problem is much bigger than any of us. The dinosaur airlines have legacy employees, protected by a powerful union that works about the same way as the baseball union. Prevent the steroids issue from getting solved at all costs. In the airline business, I suspect that’s the biggest problem the large airlines have in improving their own business…which is why the only solution may be a tough customer service bill of rights…that penalizes the airlines for failing to service customers.
The best thing that could happen is that they go out of business and open the opportunity to JetBlue and Southwest who have happy employees and take care of business.
I complained to AA and rec’d a lame computer response, offering me 15,000 miles. I would rather take a bus than get on another AA flight. Email deleted.
Because of this issue, now, maybe there’s enough of us that somebody in congress will take action…because they see us as a way to get re-elected…rather than the money of the airlines. That’s what we can hope for. It’s going to be very tough to get a bill passed, because there will be a lot of money fighting it. But….let’s gather strength from this. It always makes me wonder….that the airline passengers are often the most astute, wealthy people….and it seems weird that airlines don’t get that. Until now, maybe it didn’t matter. Let’s roll.
Change the definition of “on time”. It is not when you leave the gate… it is when you leave the ground.
This would enable existing sytems for tracking and reporting on time to remain in place yet more accurately reflect what is going on.
I would be happy if there was a petition to sign. I would do it in a heartbeat. This is a long time coming. The airlines always get what they want now it’s our turn.
I SO SUPPORT your struggle, and have been an advocate of flyer’s rights for years in my rather minor role in the media. IF THIS HAPPENS TO YOU: I suggest finding a SMOKER, and having them LIGHT UP! All hell will break loose! “Clear the plane for a gate, OMG, we have a LIT CIGARETTE ON THE PLANE!”Or Act hysterical, and force them to clear the plane. As a last resort, and this may seem out of line, but “pretend terroristic threats” might be in line after so many hours held hostage. THAT WILL GET THEIR DAMNED ATTENTION. The Prairie Spy
This is part of my travel log from last month…American Airlines strikes again!
The past few days have been an adventure (to say the very least). The word of the weekend is f*@#. If you ever thought something couldn’t go terribly wrong in every unconceivable way, you’d better change your optimism. It started Friday, probably because Tyson and I were assigned to seats in the 13th row. I’m wasn’t into crazy superstitions until now. Apparently, someone cancelled our tickets, but American Airlines does not have any more records except that it was someone named ‘Alexander.’ Any way, we squeezed on the flight to Miami. Four hours later, we’re at the aiport in Miami learning that our flight’s delayed until 1:30 in the morning due to mechanical problems. At midnight they tell us the flaps wont be fixed until the next day, but AA is putting us up for the night in a hotel not far away. The Blue Supershuttle commands our passage out of Miami and into the Alligator swamps to an Indian casino.The lobby to this fine establishment is filled with pangs, bleeps, and shrieking neon jingles from the machines. A woman in platform kicks and runny mascara thrashes with her rat-tail sporting husband. He spent all their money on some other woman’s poker game. We catch some ‘rest,’waking up to the stench of stale ash and cashed butts at six am. Mmmm. That’s casino in the morning! Back to the airport…flight finally gets off the ground at 12:30. Our seats are the last two seats. We are the ass of the plane. how charming. A catering guy is trapped in the plane as we pull away from the gate, so the plane is delayed while the caterer makes his escape out the aft hatch. We have a further delay because a passenger is missing (I have her name, and yes, I will be paying her a visit one day, as it is her delay that is responsible for the doom that awaits). Lift off. Great success! Eleven hours later we’re nearing the end of our flight, being forced to eat lunch (actually breakfast) with spoons. Hza! I watch the in-flight monitor in horror. The plane is a less than an hour from Buenos Aires but for some reason it starts to turn around. Fuck! I smack Tyson.Wake up asshole. Something’s wrong. no, don’t be ridiculous. We’re in a holding pattern.A few minutes later the pilot announces there is hazardous weather in BA, and we cannot land. So he decides to land at Rosario, a small city 350 miles away. The plan is to wait an hour or so on the ground while the storms pass. We sit in the airplane, in the dark, for one hour. two hours. three hours. four hours. five hours. six hours. We cannot exit the aircraft because the airport is so small it does not have customs officials. We cannot take off because the pilots have logged more than 16 hours of flight time and must rest for a minimum of 11 hours. Customs clerks are bussed into the airport. we get off the plane at sunrise to find ourselves stranded at an abandoned airport in the middle of cow country. super. The storms continue, and it doesn’t look like they’re going break (the airline promises to send us another plane with a fresh crew to take the passengers to BA, while the original crew and plane will take the luggage later, after the pilots have rested). Sure… At noon I make a decision to bribe a handicap van to take ten passengers the 350 miles to Buenos Aires. And that’s exactly what we did. Never mind it’s now monday night and I still have no idea where our gear is. But that’s where we are so far.
Please be use caution when asking for fines for weather and air traffic control delays. I am a pilot and I don’t want to have to be forced to fly in bad weather or violate rules just to make a connection. I know there are things that need to be done and glad you are addressing them.You are seeing how management treats you. They are not much nicer to the people who work here.Which may answer your questions about employee attitudes.
The Passenger’s Bill of Rights is a great idea. While the specific bill of rights needs some polishing as it does not address all important issues (like the new full body ex-ray machine being used at the Phoenix airport) and perhaps over-reaches on some demands, such as the 150% refund for delayed flights, it’s certainly a good start and a worthy movement.
I would add to the lost baggage requirement that an option to insure checked bags be made available, so that customers can choose to insure their baggage at a reasonable cost against lost luggage, stolen property or damage.
I agree with the comments of this being illegal seizure. And I agree with the poster stating our elected officials should have done something long ago on this issue…..But of course, what do they care, they have private jets paid for at our expense with plenty to eat, drink, clean toilets, room to move about and respect of the crew waiting on them.I support your efforts to create an Airline Passenger’s Bill of Rights.JackieNashville, TN
Though I do not fly often, this same thing happened to me in September 2006. I was flying USAir from Portland, ME to Flagstaff, AZ. I arrived at the airport two hours before scheduled departure and checked in. After sitting and waiting (with no announcements of any sort regarding a delayed flight) I went to the service counter. I was curtly greeted with a “Yes it’s delayed and you will not make your connecting flight in Phoenix. However you can take another flight out at your own expense.” I was livid and had a heated conversation with this person at the counter. I asked for a phone number for customer service which she hesitantly gave me. This number was a bogus number and she disappeared. Finally getting on the plane, we left nearly two hours late and arrived in Boston. The reception was the same. We left Boston FINALLY and arrived in Philadelphia. It was there the REAL nightmare happened. I had minutes to make my connecting flight. I was able to board the plane, get somewhat settled, and after waiting an hour at the gate in the plane, we were finally able to taxi. It was there we sat for 5 1/2 hours. I am diabetic and taking meds for both that and hypertension. They ran out of food, was low on water, and like the other airlines served salted peanuts. I was appalled. The toilets were in incredibly horrible shape, the air was stagnant in the plane and everybody was loud and complaining. When we were finally able to leave, we arrived in Phoenix and told the last flight had left a couple of hours prior. Then we were given and told we could have discount coupons for rooms and auto rentals if we wanted. I was furious and FINALLY the nicest gal came to me and gave me a voucher for a free meal at one of the 24-hour restaurants at the Phoenix Airport. I ate and found an empty chair to sleep in because there were so many people in my same situation. The next morning I was advised that they had arranged for a flight to Flagstaff and that I would be able to catch that flight at 8am. While waiting, they announced that they wanted people to volunteer their seats on that same flight, would be able to take an 11am flight to Flagstaff, and get a voucher for a free flight anywhere in the lower 48. Since it had been so long of a wait for me, I thought what the heck, I’d volunteer my seat and get the next flight. They refused me claiming that I had already been accommodated. My flight to Flagstaff had been bought and paid for and I wasn’t accommodated with anything. When I finally arrived in Flagstaff I immediately wrote a letter to USAir/AmericaWest. I received a letter of apology and a voucher for $200 on another flight. While I can appreciate what they have done, I don’t feel like they really understand what a full load of passengers has to deal with on trip like that. Airlines continue to raise their prices, file bankruptcies under the protection of the government and yet nothing changes. The flight attendants and counter service agents losing tempers and treating the passengers who contribute to their paychecks should try to be more understanding of irate passengers. And to reprimand passengers for being impatient, hungry, thirsty and requesting food and/or water is ludicrous. Salted peanuts?? Keep that for those who like to have a beer or two on a flight. With the security measures now, you have to be careful about what snacks you can even bring on a flight. Enough with it being about the money…why not bump the passengers above the money and treat them as “the family” that so many airlines claim to feel passengers are. PHEW!
Something needs to be done about this ever increasing unsympathetic industry. They raise the rates shrink the space and treat you like the elephant crapping in the livingroom. But I will play devils advocate concerning Congress. When was the last time the fat assed leaders of our nation rode coach or even in an airline. They get their rides from corporate charters that are most likely owned by the very airlines we are bitching about. You think Teddy, Obama, John McCain, or Ted Stevens ride on airlines?But I’m for change and free meals again!
Outrageous, unbelievable example of American Airlines management treating passengers like cattle! This is just one more reason to avoide AA.
You should construct a petition.
Here’s to you. Good luck. I appreciate your efforts but our politicians will do nothing. As stated in another blog, why should they? They have private jets and food paid for by us. On a good note, I fly delta 99 percent of the time and I fly frequently. They have always been polite and accomodating. However, my daughter had a Delta flight out the middle of December. The flight was cancelled due to mechanical issues. They were told this after they were waiting to board for 2 hours. The plane was off loaded at the gate and they were told ” sorry we cannot put you on another flight because every airline is full due to the holidays. We will call you if we find anything.” Of course there was no call. I went to the airport to pick her up and called Delta the next day. She did get another flight but the only one that had a seat open was a 1am flight on Christmas day. I was told they did not see the need to bring in another plane and that they were sorry but there was nothing they could do. Who I really felt sorry for were those passengers who did not live in Alaska and were trying to get home before Christmas. There has got to be an answer, I am just not sure what it is. The airlines are in charge and they know it.
No one on this site has yet mentioned the fact that the airlines pay a fee to the airports based on the amount of time a plane sits connected to a terminal. If this policy was removed, and another way of making payments to the airports was created, it would remove a large amount of this ‘sitting on the runway’ torture. I’ve personally endured a 2 hour wait and it was nearly unbearable. I can’t imagine what these poor passengers in Austin must have gone through.
I rarely fly but in March 2006 I was coming back to Minneapolis from Laughlin on Sun Country. Due to a snow storm we circled Minneapolis for one hour before they diverted us to Fargo as we were very low on fuel. We sat on the tarmac in Fargo just over 6 hours. It was one of the most grueling experiences my family and I have ever gone through. First of all, my husband is claustrophobic. We saw that there were two empty seats in first class and I asked if he could sit up there til we were ready to take off. No, was the answer. I offered to pay extra and the word was still no, that we would have had to pay for it in Laughlin. I offered to pay the extra in Minneapolis and was still told no. Secondly, there was absolutely no water or anything given out to anyone except those in first class. They were given water, juice and pop. The flight attendants wouldn’t even come back into coach at all, even when one of the passengers became quite unruly after drinking a bunch of rum that he had taken on the plane, and eaten the rest of his cigarettes. Children were crying, it was hot and smelly. We were all just exhausted and extremely thirsty. Why can’t they just at least have had some water for us? Nowadays you can’t bring liquids on the plane, so that option of bringing your own is out.
What would you have them do takeoff into a thunderstorm and risk the safety of you, the rest of the passengers and their own lives. Sometimes things are out of the airlines control…
You think the crews enjoy sitting with you for 7 hours…sometimes there is no place to go…no gates and/or no arrival slots for an airport…
Yes it sucks, BUT, somtimes you need to look outside the little window you have and realize its a big world and a LOT of airplanes
Try going to this site, One it helps with tracking real time status of airborne flights and delays at airports…
BUT just look at how many airplanes are flying into some of these major airports…the end of the line could be 3 states away and about 50 arrivals…just from one direction
look at this page…and this is on a decent weather day, imagine level 4 and 5 thunderstorms and what that does to the number of airplanes and where they have to go… it may seem like a real big sky, but for the safety of everyone, certain spacing minimums need to be maintained…
The only reason AA kept those people in the plane on the tarmac in Austin was so they wouldn’t have to refund their tickets or put the passengers in a seat on another flight that they could try to sell to someone else. AA appears to be the worst about these incidents, other airlines have had situations like this as well but usually never let it go as far as this.
If the airlines are going to be so strict about their policies of check-ins, baggage, etc. then the passenger should have the rights to be strict about what delays they will tolerate. AA is just lucky in this instance that someone with a health issue didn’t die on this plane. Any delay where the passengers are left sitting on a plane for more than 2 or 3 hours is ridiculous and if it takes laws to wake these airlines up, then so be it.
But quit your bitching if you don’t like it… take a train, bus or drive your own car…
…our country always has to bitch and feel they deserve compensation for something that is out of control…
people bitch about the airlines, the food, the long lines, …the list goes on and on…
Well guess what, the airlines are paying almost 3 times more for fuel, getting taxed by the government to pay for the security to protect YOU, from the pyschos out there and operate in a cut throat competitive industry where a startup, questionable air carrier can steal business…
What does it matter….stamp your feet scream as loud as you can… nothing will happen it is called the ATA, Airlines Transport Association one of the strongest lobbyist in Washington. The airline labor groups have been trying for decades to improve their working conditions and anytime it comes close the ATA convinces congress/president to kill the bill/law/deal because it will cost the airlines too much $$$
You want to start a reform start with how the lobbyist line the pockets of our congressman to vote in their favor…
anonymous said:What would you have them do takeoff into a thunderstorm and risk the safety of you, the rest of the passengers and their own lives.
Yes, that’s what they want, to take of in storms. That is the only other alternative to sitting in the plane for ten hours before taking off.
For all those who are saying they don’t want to be forced to fly in bad weather – no shit, no one does. But you can have us wait AT THE GATE where we can walk around, use bathrooms that aren’t overflowing and buy food and drink. There is NO reason (other than terminal fees that airlines have to pay) to have passengers locked in a parked plane for 9 hours.
DON’T punish all airlines just because American hosed you. Other airlines have Contracts of Carriages and Customer Service Commitments that they actually believe in and follow. Go after American but don’t go after every airline. American is at fault, not the industry. Don’t heap their troubles onto other airlines that haven’t harmed you.
I have to agree that the likelihood of Congress taking action is slim to none. Does anyone know if lawsuits for similar instances have been filed in the past and whether they were successful? The negative press and legal fees alone would be enough to get airlines to sit up and pay attention.
i got stuck on the tarmac on a small commuter plane in new hampshire once for 2 hours. you have my sympathy.
Last July I took a flight from Dallas/Fortworth to SFO. The flight was delayed over two hours with no explanation given. After being in the air for 1 hour, the pilot came on to say we were running out of fuel because we were flying lower than usual because of storm turbulance. This was July, and hot as ____ outside. We were told we had to land in Sacramento, Ca. to fuel up before landing in San Francisco. There we sat on the tarmac in Sacramento on one of the hottest days of the year. It was 107 degrees. The pilot came on again and said it would take only a few minutes to fuel up and we would be on our way. As we sat there, the plane kept getting hotter and hotter. The air conditioning no longer worked. There were over 100 people on the plane. Babies were crying and older folks were near passing out from the heat. I asked the attendant for some ice, and was told there was no ice, no water, but I could have some recycled water if I wanted! We were held there for over an hour, until the passengers became unruly and started getting off the plane. First the captain was escorting them off 10 at a time (according to some regulation). Then people started getting off on their own, through the back door. We ended up in the terminal for 4 more hours. They wouldn’t tell us what was going on, no one knew anything. After leading us through the terminal to two different gates, we finally left to arrive at SFO at midnight. On the other end, my husband was waiting for over 5 hours for me. He tried to get some answers why the plane was delayed, and they told him nothing. There was no apology or explanation or compensation for the incitent. I feel there was something wrong with the plane, and it should have never left the ground in Dallas. I will never fly American Airlines again!
While I’m usually always against more/additional intervention & regular from Uncle Scam, I’m in full support of this “Airline Passenger’s Bill of Rights”. Being a big guy (6’8, 320), I hate flying as it is. One of my worst nightmare scenarios is getting stuck on a tarmac for an any extended period (much less 10 hours). The airline industry treats passengers like cattle, because it’s all about the “bottom line”. Uncle Scam needs to pass this law (& repeal 2-3 sorry laws).
10 hours imprisoned on the plane and none of the passangers took any action? After 4 hours I would have opened the emerency door and slid down the slide. Maybe they would have arrested me, but a warm jail cell with food is better than a plane with no food that smells like piss. Bottom line, in the end no jury would convict you, you would get 15 minutes of fame and your action would get the airline’s attention. Have we all become sheep? STAND UP PEOPLE!
MY PET PEEVE!…is a grossly overweight passenger sitting next to me, their fat body overhanging against me, either pushing me up against the window or out into the isle. This is a growing problem (no pun intended) for both fellow passengers and I’m sure, the airlines. My gripe is that to sit beside these big people causes suffering and hardship to the paying passenger next to them. I will NEVER FORGET the flight from PHL and Pheonix when this grossly overweight couple who weighted a minimum of 350-400 pounds each (isle & center) pushed me up against the window during the four+ hour flight. The two of them should have paid for three seats! Something needs to be done. This time it isn’t just the airline’s problem…unless they don’t come up with a solution. The airlines need the revenue for every seat. The solution should not include reducing seats and increasing the tickets for everyone. The solution should that the airlines should expand their first class section, and REQUIRE grossly overweight people to take oversized FC seats. Maybe have three sections in a plane; First Class, Oversize-it-seats, and regular low priced passenger section. Those oversized seats would have the space but not the service as first class. Then everyone would be happy.
There is a clear need for an Airline Passenger Bill of Rights.
This is discussed in an article on my website
And, based on feedback from the 22,000 readers of my weekly newsletter, we have created a proposed list of rights.
Additional opinions and suggestions are welcomed. 🙂
Who has exempted the airlines from kidnapping statutes?
Ignorance is bliss so it must be a peaceful day for most of you beach goers enjoining a sunny day on the shores of Lake Nonsenses!– First off before you are so quick to have Uncle Sam set new laws about something because YOU had a bad time you might consider the impacts on EVERYONE else that has to fly! This bill passing means higher cost to everyone and it could also be the stepping stone to other government regulated industry’s! – Secondly how about you lean something about the aviation and the dynamics of how the industry works! Educate yourself on just how government regulated the airlines already are! Why do you think air travel is so safe in the US? I have seen riots at airports because the airline has to fix an airplane, the passengers wanted to fly regardless if it was safe to or not, again ME, ME, ME! – Thirdly does the government have to waste tax dollars and time to draft a bill of rights for something that is a PRIVILEGE? Yes I said it! Flying is neither a God given nor a constitutionally protected right folks so how can there be a bill? This is a free market economy so if you do not like AA the do not fly AA. ” But there is the easiest way for me to get there out of DFW” then connect thought Denver on United or Houston on Continental. “But that is sooooo inconvenient” then its your problem and not that of Congress! Oh and by the way, if enough passengers an that AA flight had voiced their opinions then the plane would have returned to the gate! I guess it is just easier to stay quite an then yell later, the new American way!
I have a good idea for how to get back at American. It’s a little complicated, so follow closely: fly another airline next time. If you need further explanation, please contact me.
Seriously, I sympathize. I wouldn’t want to be stuck on a plane for that long, just sitting on the tarmac, especially if I had either of my pre-K girls with me. I’d raise hell if they became excessively hungry, needed medicine or the like.
The publicity this is garnering should be a catalyst for one of two things, or both: American will lose present and future customers (something it cannot afford to do) or they will improve their processes.
But please, cease all the ‘Passenger’s Bill of Right’ baloney. The last thing that needs to happen is the introduction of more regulation on every airline because of the actions, or lack thereof, of one. The market works these things out. You don’t think they know about all this, and are taking measures to make sure it doesn’t happen on one of their airplanes??
I have a good idea for how to get back at American. It’s a little complicated, so follow closely: fly another airline next time.
But please, cease all the ‘Passenger’s Bill of Right’ baloney. The last thing that needs to happen is the introduction of more regulation on every airline because of the actions, or lack thereof, of one. The market works these things out. Uncle Sam already has his hands way too far into mine and your private lives.
You don’t think they know about all this, and are taking measures to make sure it doesn’t happen on one of their airplanes??
You realize all you guy’s are going to do by tampering with the free market is increase the price of tickets across the board. You’ll get the regulations you want, but your going to have to pay more for tickets–and that means ALL people are going to have to pay more for tickets.
They should have just flown you guys through the storm…
Here’s a novel idea: DON’T FLY IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT.
That send’s a message to the airlines that you are disatisfied, and that sends a message to competitors that if they can sharpen their act, weather providing, they will get your business, hence the term “market economy”.
Just because we are part of the “working class” doesn’t mean we have to be incompetent, economically impaired morons…
The market works these things out.
Yes. Just like child labor.
I’ve had to land due to bad weather before at an airport that had no room at a gate for us, and I’d much rather be sitting on the ground for 8 hours wishing I was flying than being in the air wishing I was on the ground. Give the professionals that carry us their due and cut them some slack.
Prices will not rise as a result beacuse the “free market” will bring them right back down. Airlines need to regulated and governed just as electricity because they are such an integral part of life. The airlines treatment of passengers is unacceptable.
AMEN!, finally someone is holding these people responsible. Every year we pay more money for less service and more balligerant employees. I flew United to Denver a few years ago to go skiing. I brought a BRAND NEW pair of snow skiis that were fresh out of the wrapper. When I arrived in Denver my skiis were destroyed! The airline asked if they were like that before the flight and then accused me of lying about it. After I yelled at them for weeks they simply said and I quote “We don’t care because we don’t have to. We have so many customers it doesn’t matter”. Wow. I say go get them!!!!
I think allowing the airlines even three hours is too long. My wife spent over two hours in November on the tarmac awaiting takeoff . . . it is an irresponsible and inexcusable practice. If the planes can’t take off, return the passengers to the concourse. If they can’t do that they should get out of the business.
[quote=Anonymous,reply=0]I think allowing the airlines even three hours is too long. My wife spent over two hours in November on the tarmac awaiting takeoff . . . it is an irresponsible and inexcusable practice. If the planes can’t take off, return the passengers to the concourse. If they can’t do that they should get out of the business.
January 25, 2007 2:39 PM [/quote]
Brilliant! That is the best idea I have read here yet! Lets see how we can sort it all out then. ORD for example, cast your mind. A big thunderstorm is over the airport and there are 100 planes holding in the air with 100 planes waiting at the runway. With your idea the 100 on the ground return to the gate to let Thieu passengers off, right. Well first there won’t be 100 gates to return to because some will more than likely still be occupied. Secondly those 100 on the ground cant just turn around a drive back because they are already lined up on the taxiways. Third, were do the 100 in the air go if when they land. Your idea has all the gates already occupied. What if your arriving and not departing? Do you still advocate for that sort of plan? I have an idea, educate yourself on the dynamics of the industry before you lobby to change what you obviously do not understand.
This happened to me last Tuesday morning 1/16 AUS to DFW. Long story short, flight was supposed to take off at 6:40a however it didn’t leave until ~11:15a !! A FOUR and a HALF HOUR sit on the tarmac in austin. Mostly due to the fact that AA outsources their de-icing and they RAN OUT of de-icing liquid half way through the de-icing process. All the while we watched Southwest flights come, get de-iced, and go. SOOO infuriating to say the least. I missed my international connection and then had to beg AA for a crappy hotel, a $10 dinner voucher, and nothing more. HORRIBLE experience sitting with little to no info for 4.5 hours. I didn’t have the energy to organize a group complaint but I fill be filing a formal complaint with the airline. If anyone else was on the flight please email me at email@example.com
Here’s an idea…stop traveling on airplanes. Government is not the answer. If you can go by car, then go by car. Simply stop using the airplanes or find airlines that are more user friendly. Next thing you know we’ll have a bill of rights for buying a car, or going to amusement parks, or this, or that. Let the market rule, I have pretty much stopped traveling because of all the head aches, and I’m much happier for it.
I think the airline should charge everyone extra for using the plane more than the normal time. What do you think?
As a frequent flier, I have had so many of these experiences that I quit counting. I have driven home after cancelled flights several times. From rude airline employees to Nazi TSA employees, I have had my fill. BUT, I do not think that more legislation is the answer. I would rather join a million or so strong Passengers Union that could put the hurt on a particular airline by asking its members to boycott them for short periods of time. (imagine 50 flights cancelled at one airport in a day) We wouldn’t even have to be inconvenienced, as we just schedule around the day of the boycott. The power of a large group can achieve somewhat instant gratification. Legislation takes years and would wind up attached to a bill to build a bridge in the Nevada desert.
Simply put, AA and the other airlines are a business trying to make money in a market where people do not want to pay for anything, and are operating under conditions that are completely dictated by weather. The weather system is dynamic, it changes, and sometimes it makes it unsafe for airplanes to fly.
I understand that all of you who were stranded on the AA plane are quite upset, I would be too. BUT you first need to consider the consequences for the airlines if your “passenger bill of rights” and other silly demands are implemented across the board.
For example, a 150% refund for any reason is ridiculous. ESPECIALLY if it is for a delay related to weather. The airline does not regulate the weather, and will get you to your destination when conditions permit them to fly. You all have jobs, why? To make money… The airlines operate for the same reason. If your job does not allow you to make enough money to pay the bills, you go into bankruptcy. Nothing changes when it’s the airlines not making enough money. Even a full refund and no 50% extra would be devastating, considering that they still must burn fuel and pay pilots to get you to your destination.
What everyone here needs to remember is that the airline industry is leaning over the edge of bankruptcy as it is, they do not need, and cannot handle, the cost of all of these suggested “rights”. Mark these words: If the suggestions of this group are implemented the airline industry will crumble under the overwhelming cost associated with such implementations. No airline = no travel.
Try to look at your suggestions in a rational way. Do they make economic sense for an airline? Are they even fair considering that most of your demands stem from events that are completely unavoidable? No doubt everyone, including myself, is frustrated by the airlines and their policies, but in this case the suggestions of this group will do nothing to improve conditions for travelers. They will only breed new problems and complaints.
Lastly, I would like to congradulate the several of you before me who have had the sense to see this issue in real world terms. We Americans are too used to getting everything our way, ME ME ME… Flying is not a right, it is a convenience that you are all taking for granted. Fly another airline if that pleases you, but stop making inconveniences in your lives everyone elses problem.
NOTHING is farrther from the truth than to believe that big government is the solution to everyone’s problems. If there’s a weather event, would you vote to take off and risk a crash? Of course not! If you really don’t like the service at a restaurant, does it make sense to start a “Eaters Bill of Rights” or would it make more sense to decide on another restaurant option next time. That’s what free market is all about! Choices! Competition! Take a train, take the bus or drive if airline travel really bothers you. If AA gets your goat, did you think about another airline option? All this noise because we are a little inconvenienced? What a bunch of ninnies! Hey, if it is poor service that has you ticked-off, then go to the competition. Let’s reduce government not expand it! 22,000 comments to this blog doesn’t compare to the 22 million people who flew today of which most were happy to arrive safe and almost on time 🙂 Use wheels or rails, but don’t give big government an excuse to take more taxes out of the pockets of the “American working middle class.” Imo, it is free-loaders who demand big government to step in to solve every little problem. Hey, internationsal flights have been cancelled out from under me because of snow storms…I missed connections at the other end…I missed VERY important meetings and dinner engagements…! If you fly and you’re as smart as you think you are, you will always have “Plan B” for the days you sit in traffic, wether on the road or in the air. Come on guys, big government to find a solution??? Let’s get real!
-by 1 million+ mile flyer – because it is the best way to get there from here.
you’re really missing an opportunity here by not providing a private petition signing board
I wasn’t on your flight but was on flight 2412 and had the same experience! I left LAX on a NONSTOP flight to DFW upon entry to DFW we were told to fly over for almost 1 hour then because of lack of fuel we were diverted to Austin where we along with 5 other airplanes were to refuel and proceed back to DFW.The captain came on and told us we had to get clearence from the Company(AA) after we saw 2 other AAplanes take off along with other planes leaving the terminal we were told we weren’t able to leave. After another 2 hours we were told that a bus would be coming to take anyone off that wanted off BUT.. your luggage would remain on the plane and if indeed you were getting off YOU would be responsible for finding your way to DFW. No voutcher would be given . We had 2 ladies whowere diabetic and we were all getting in our carryons to help them The airplane ran out of water..peanuts..toliet paper etc. They had an airline employee bring out the snack boxes for everone but the diminished rapadily. Also the toliets were overflowing and babies were crying and we were being told by the captain that they were waiting for clearence. We also had a small lap dog who after 5 hours in his case decided to RELEIVE himself on the seat as a resukt we had to indure the smell of DOG POOP, not the poor dogs fault but along with the toxic air from the toliets we had a major stench in the cabin. At 10:30 PM the captain finally said due to regulations the crew had to depart from the plane, STILL no BUS came to take anyone off, but to to AA regulations the crew had to come off. Well waht a miracle the bus came amid the rain and lighting and took the few people off that opted to FIND THEIR OWN WAY. At 11:00 pm were we told there was an open gate and we could taxi to the terminal But in the meantime we were all on cell phones trying to finf a hotel or somewhere we could stay.They gave usinformation of where to go after we departed from the airplane that was as much of a disaster as sitting on the tarmat in the plane for almost 10 hours..The ticket people were sooo RUDE holding up a piece of paper yelling at us there were no seats available and we need to call customer service. Hello OVERLOAD on the phones. You had to get a flight on your own and upon arrival at the airport the following morning guess what the flight eas cancelled and one was delay because NO NOT THE WEATHER, they couldn”t find a FLIGHT CREW!!!!I sent a email to the customer service on there websight because you can’t talk to a PERSON only a MACHINE..there response to me was Well we can’t control the weather so therefore we can’t reimbusre anyone. My response to them wa Well you can control you flight crew..there were 3 captains at the Hilton where I was able to get a room and guess what they were at the BAR!! Thats service from the airlines. My opinion is that we should be reimbursed for not only the flight but for hotel accomidations that were an unexpected expense. The airlines should have ample food,water, and toliet articles on hand for these types of emergencys. Also a better form of COMMUNICATION between the CREW and the COMPANY!!Not only did I have to dealwith the situation my poor daughter who I orginally set out to visit had to be on her computer to try to find lodging and information on what was happening the RUDE response from Ms MONTOYA who told her simple WE CAN’T CONTROL THE WEATHER mind you shes at the DFW airport with her small 2yr old wondering IF and WHEN our flight was going to land and then there Ms Ware who was the phone rep who was sooo RUDE and told her pretty much the same It seems like the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand was doing. SO only after the MEDIA became involved did AA send out vouchers but not for the FULL amount of your orginal FARE.YES YES we all need to band together to PROTECT our rights as passangers , after all we are the ones paying their WAGES
Yep, this happened to me 10 years ago or so because of tornado around DFW. It took 26 hours from CLE to LAX (19- 20 hours more than scheduled). They did put us up once we got off the plane. Only we had left Austin and ended up in Corpus Christi and had to share rooms. There should be a law limiting time just like there is for flight crews.
I wouldn’t fly if there was a viable alternative.
American Airlines is a joke. I live in Champaign Urbana, IL. They are basically the only choice out of here. They constantly oversell the flights, then ask for volunteers, and offer a $300.00 voucher for future travel. Pay me $300.00 cash and I may think about it, not a $300.00 voucher for another oversold, delayed and or cancelled flight. They are always pushing back from the gate and then parking on the tarmac. I believe this allows them to show an on-time daparture and then they blame the FAA – Air Traffic Control. They have to know this info before they push back, and if it is an FAA issue it needs to be addressed there as well. They lose my bag every two out of three flights. They have a contractor who delievers the bag to me, we are on a first name basis. I think you folks who were stranded should definitely hire an attorney. AA needs a serious wake up call.
Next time, just start praying to Allah to kill the infidel American Airline employees. They will return to the gate them.
F**K American Airlines
Look up Delta flight 191 and you might see why airlines do not fly into thunderstorms. I am sure the 136 passengers that died on August 2nd 1985 would have gladly taken a ten hour delay in AUS over the alternative they got. You people should be ashamed of yourselves complaining like this. Remember folks, the FAA regulations that govern airlines are written in blood.
After this last week I will never fly American Airlines again! Our 5 PM flight from Philadelphia to Phoenix boarded 90 min. late, backed away, then sat there for another hour. We missed our Dallas connection to Phoenix despite repeated assurances from stewardesses (and supposedly the captain) that all the flights out of Dallas were running behind. Come to find out the plan left 15 min before. (There is no bad weather involved here that anyone can tell us about.) 10 PM at night in Dallas airport, the AA gal says no flights out to Phoenix until 7 AM next morning. Everything we have in bags that we can’t get at and she offers to get us a discount at a local hotel. “It’s not our fault – it’s air traffic control’s fault. We only have to pay for a hotel when it’s mechanical.” Supposedly Air Traffic Control is responsible for making the connecting flight take off on time also – “we have no choice, we have to take off when they tell us to.” After pitching a fit, she finally puts us on a 2 1/2 our flight to Vegas, where we can catch an America West plane to Phoenix, getting in at 3 AM in the morning. There is no customer service at American Airlines. It’s a crying shame – this used to be a class operation – but no more.
what a bunch of cry babies. Sure, this particular case was a cockup. True, the plane should have been unloaded after an a couple of hours and the plane parked off in a holding area. but the gov’t isn’t going to do jack squat and they have NO business meddling either. A PR stink is the appropriate response and American I’m sure is just loving all the flack and lost business it entails.
There is no need for some lame traveler’s rights. if you don’t like your chances with weather, then go drive. otherwise, shut up and suck it up. Be happy air travel that is as safe and cheap as it is, is so readily available.
Clearly ^^this^^ moron has never experienced what goes on when airlines screw up. It is unacceptable to be imprisoned in those disgusting buckets of filth for so long and it’s high time we got some rights!
Good luck I hope you succeed!
You need to put a contact email address on the FRONT page of your blog. People who want to join (those who were on your flight), don’t know they should read through numerous comments to find your contact information.
Airlines suck. All of them. Not just AA. The industry is government-subsidized, therefore the government sucks too. All of them.
This has been a long time coming and others have tried to push a travelers bill of rights through in the past. There are “rules” that the airlines follow, but the public rarely is aware of them. And the compensation for delays is limited and does not apply to acts of God (weather). I totally agree that ten hours on the ground is a painful experience and I would had suffered a major panic attack for sure. We also realize that the ground crew is in jeopardy if they are out assisting planes during a lightning storm. But it is difficult to believe that there were not moments when a crew could had guided that plane to the gate, in ten whole hours. Bad decision on the part of AA.
This is a great idea. This kind of reform is a MUST. I have also experienced this kind of false-imprisonment and it should be outlawed. The issue of non-refundable and non-transferable tickets should also be addressed. Needless to say a long list of grievances can easily be drawn up. The airlines are their own worst enemies. Some kind of reform can be beneficial to both the passengers and the airlines.
I agree, it is no fun to fly in bad weather, but to sit for 10 hours is not accptable as well. That plane should have returned to the gate. At a minimum, there needs to be a protocol for this.
As far the airline business, they need to raise their prices. I fly about twice a month. I pay the asking price. If they raise the price, I more than likely will still fly. Every flight I take is full anbd oversold, so it looks to me supply is low and demand is high. Raise your prices AA, and provide an acceptable level of service.
I was one of the many passengers that was on a diverted flight to Austin after circling DFW for over an hour waiting for landing clearance. I echo many of the sentiments, frustation and anger that have been expressed already.
On Dec 29, flight 2412 left LA at 6:30 AM and we didn’t get off the aircraft until 9:00 PM (CST); so that was over 12 hours cramped on a MD80 with overflowing toilets, no food, lots of rattled nerves and many many frustrated and angry passengers. I do have to say the flight crew of 2412 were extremely gracious and helped as much as they could to alleviate passenger frustrations. My biggest complaints are the inadequate and incompetent airport and ground operations that FORCED us to sit on the tarmac for over 8 hours and then the unhelpful and rude ticket counter agents in Austin. I know that AA has no control of the weather, but AA has every control over how it handles a situation.
This experience was extremely subhumane and should never happen again. It is unacceptable. And AA sending a $500 voucher does not placate me and does not negate the issues and problems at hand. A passenger’s bill of rights MUST be passed.
Even if these bastards go backrupt, the US government will more than likely bail them out. I hope they do fold and the govt shows some backbone and lets them collapse.
I was stuck on another AA flight stranded in San Antonio for nearly 9 hours that same day. It was Orange County to Dallas, but I’d have to look up the number.
Where are the positive experiences you have had with AA? Everyone is quick to complain, but will never post positive experiences. People have complained about being on a plane for many hours. None of you whiners should ever take a flight to Asia….you’d be crying for being on the plane too long, then you would sue for the flight taking too long.
I agree with the earlier post: Where is the list! Start a petition with names, addresses, tel#’s
The only way to get a politician’s attention is to show them a list of names representing a voter bloc. This is what they are genetically programmed to pander to.
Done properly I think you could easily get 1MM names, nearly the size of a good labor union!
Why can’t airlines be truthful? Several times they will post a 15 minute flight delay only to find out that the plane has not even left it’s last destination.
wah wah wah.
you guys were linked to on Thursday by this travel related blog, which is pretty widely read.http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/2007/01/25/update-how-to-support-the-airline-passengers-bill-of-rights/
I was also on flight 1348, sitting right in front of the woman wearing the respirator. I am sure someone here remembers her. Anyways, I tried to remain calm despite the fact I felt we were being treated terrible. I would classify the conditions as inhumane. Not only were the lavatories nearing their waste capacity, we were not given any food other than potato chips (expired in November ’06). I literally watched the sun rise and set on that plane, missed a reunion with dear friends in Chicago, missed a concert, and sat through 8.5 hours of hell. Hey, at least the booze was free 🙂 In all seriousness, I would like to be a part of this movement. Please contact me and let me know what I can do.
I was on flight 1348 also and couldn’t even get water…. how did you get free booze???
Last summer I was on a Continental flight from Newark, NJ to Moncton, NB , Canada. It was a small jet. We left the gate and sat on the tarmac for six hours. There were violent storms in the area.
The flight was forced off the gate to make room for other planes. Why not let the passengers wait in the terminal and let the pilot and crew sit on the tarmac for six hours.
There was not much of an apology or compensation of any type offered by the airline. What happened to customer service?????
I was bumped on an AA flight on January 1st for TWO DAYS!! That’s right they rescheduled us (there were three of us at a trade show in St. Louis Missouri) on the 3rd January! No apology, no hotel vouchers, nothing! We had to spend two extra days in St. Louis at our own expense!We had confirmed tickets booked three weeks in advance! AA is unbelievably arrogant and I am all for this legislation!
I am an American service member who traveled to BEIRUT for a very long tour. Enroute, I traveled on 2 carriers – British Airways and American Airlines. British Airways has been unable to locate one of four bags for A MONTH and claims the bag never made it to them.
When I called American Airlines and literally begged them for help (after waiting for 25 minutes on hold on an international call)the operator, “Arthur”, informed me that the responsbility for recovering the bag lay with the final carrier and that AA could not would not help. This individual would not transfer the call, allow me to talk to anyone else, or anything. That portion of the phone call lasted 2 minutes.
I want EVERYONE to know that the service men and women of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA are still serving and sometimes doing it in places like Beirut without clothing.
I arrived on 24 DEC 06 and as of 31 JAN 07 still have not received my bag. Since neither airline seems to care I am extremely keen on also letting the world know about their excellent customer service.
Mim,It is customary in the industry for the final carrier that transports YOU, not your BAG, to take your claim. That prevents duplication of claims.
DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THIS? IT’S ABOUT TIME WE HAVE OUR RIGHTS REPRESENTED … BY MEANS OTHER THAN LITIGATION …http://www.fansoffieger.com/nwairsetl.htm
I had a business-class client on Lufthansa last year, and they encountered an 8-hr delay on the field due to a mechanical problem waiting for a replacement part. No food, no fruit, no beverages…1 am in the morning to an airport hotel (too late to order food!). They should have been taken off the plane after several hours. They went out the next afternoon and missed one day of their vacation.
I’m sooooooo glad you all are doing this! I Have a similar experience a friend posted on http://allthingscfnm.blogspot.com
We were on American Eagle flight 3962. We were supposed to arrive in Little Rock from Chicago at 11:00pm, but did arive until 6:00am. We were held on the tarmack without being offered anything to drink. We were also loaded and reloaded on the plane. This occured on June25,2006.
I was stranded for over 5 hours waiting for the plane to get de-iced in Detroit on Spirit Airlines a couple of years ago. I missed all my appointments that day. On the same airline at a later date they cancelled my return flight from Laguardia late at night (no more flights available). I had to sleep in the LaGuardia terminal (not very restful)(nearest hotel cost over $400 a night)and catch a 6 AM flight the next morning to attend a meeting.
Prior to my retirement I had flown over 1.4 million air miles with American Airlines including the opening pains of DFW. For many reasons, by the end of the nineties, service at AA had deteriorated and the airline filled the air with empty apologies.
I also believe it is in our interest, we passengers, to demand fair service for value paid and therefore, hope the “Passenger Bill of Rights” becomes reality. However, I suspect the reality is cold coffee, a cookie or two and a smaller coach seat as the industry continues to herd us across the airways.
I was on Flight 1424 from San Jose to Dallas and diverted to San Antonio for 8 hours without food. The bathrooms did stink, they are not large enough to be used for 13.5 hours. We were non-people not knowing what was happening, if or when we would be let off the plan and TOTALLY HELPLESS. The flight attendants were doing the best they could, the pilots were stuck up in the cockpit for the same time span and were asked not to contact the tower. You’d think that in those 8 hours on the tarmac american airlines would have had time to develop a plan. Public Relations told me only junior staff was on duty because senior staff were on vacation along with management, I assume.The airlines have too much authority and the passengers’ bill of rights is not only appropriate, but necessary. After being offered a vouch for $500 from american, I asked how they planned to make changes in their policies or even make policies and after 2 months they still did not have a clear idea of what they were going to do. The vouch is too little too late. MAKING AMENDS MEANS DOING IT DIFFERENTLY. Unless the airline industry is forced to make changes, it will be the same.
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I agree that being stuck on the tarmac for an excessive amount of time is wrong. However, its not usually cut and dry how long its going to take. Sometimes a 3 hour delay ends up being 30 minutes and sometimes a 30 minute delay turns into 4 hours. Weather can’t be controlled and planes can’t take off if it is bad and planes don’t take off just to divert. If you have been on a plane that has been diverted then most likley the weahter worsened during the flight they don’t just take off and hope it gets better that would be a waste of fuel. Others have commented on the stewardess on being rude first off all that term is no longer correct they are called flight attendants. Also they are there for safety to save you in the event of an emergency keep that in mind when they walk through and tell you to put your things where they belong and turn off electronic devices, this is for your safety and maybe they wouldn’t be so rude if they didn’t have to repeat everything over and over again. Eveyone wants to complain about customer service and i do agree that it could improve but passengers need an attitude adjustment as well. Nex time you fly listen to the people around you and how they talk to the staff.
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